3. sesija – nastavak – Prva plemenita istina – Skande, Agregati

WHAT THE BUDDHA TAUGHT, study session 3: the skandhas

Dear friends,

I would like for us to look together at the skandhas this month. This is a very deep subject, related to emptiness, and this time I am looking for an overview. We may possibly come back to skandhas at a later date if it’s something you, as a group, are interested in pursuing. The skandhas are presented in the latter part of Walpola Rahula’s chapter on the first noble truth.

I would like for you to know that the different schools of Buddhism have subtly different interpretations of what emptiness actually is, and so the presentation in the book may be different from teachings you may already have received or books that you may have read. There is also the question of how to translate these terms. Some of you have already done some serious translating and I hope you will help the others.

In our meetings, I am not looking for scholarly answers—I’m the wrong person for that anyway—but I am looking for general understanding. I do not want to go deeply into the 8 consciousnesses or the 51 (52 according to Theravadins) mental factors at this time.

I would like for you to ask yourselves:

  • why is this teaching important?
  • how does it tie in with the first noble truth?
  • how can I relate it to my everyday life?
  • how can I relate it to my meditation practice?

ČEMU JE BUDA PODUČAVAO

Treća sesija proučavanja (i razgovora): skande

Dragi prijatelji,

Želela bih da ovog meseca zajedno istražimo temu skande. To je vrlo duboka tema, povezana s prazninom, i ovom prilikom sam tragala za jednim opštim pregledom. Možda ćemo se kasnije vratiti na skande, ako je to nešto što ste vi, kao grupa, zainteresovani da nastavite da ih proučavate. Skande su u Valpolinoj knjizi predstavljene u drugom delu poglavlja o prvoj plemenitoj istini.

Želela bih da znate da različite škole budizma imaju suptilne razlike u tumačenjima onoga šta je praznina u stvari, i stoga se prezentacija u ovoj knjizi može razlikovati od učenja koje ste možda već dobili ili onog u knjigama koje ste pročitali. Tu se postavlja i pitanje prevoda ovih pojmova. Neki od vas su već ozbiljno radili na prevodima i nadam se da će oko toga pomoći drugima.

Na našim sastancima ne tražim odgovore na akademska pitanja – ja nisam prava osoba za to – ali tražim generalno razumevanje. U ovom trenutku ne želim da ulazim duboko u razmatranje 8 svesti ili 51 (52 prema Teravadinima) mentalnih faktora.

Želela bih da se zapitate:

  • zašto je to učenje važno?
  • Kako se povezuje s prvom plemenitom istinom?
  • kako to mogu povezati sa svojim svakodnevnim životom?
  • kako to mogu povezati s praksom meditacije?

Finally, I would like for EACH OF THE GROUPS TO PRESENT AT LEAST ONE OF THE FIVE SKANDHAS when we meet on March 27. I’m sorry I didn’t give you more time. I know that some of you have already pondered the question—the older students, the ladies who followed the Dharma courses at Renchen, our venerable translators…

Please work it out together, include the newer students for the presentations, make it democratic, and KEEP IT SIMPLE. Remember that we will have a translator (hallelujah!) and that we can help each other clarify these ideas once they’re out in the open.

Thank you so much! See you soon!

  • Milan and Vladica will be sending around a text with a short summary by Kalu Rinpoche in English and Serbian.
  • For those of you who can listen to a talk in English, here is a very clear presentation by scholar/practitioner Guy Armstrong: https://www.dharmaseed.org/talks/audio_player/79/32522.html
  • Additional reading material

The Five Skandhas
taught by Dave Mermelstein (USA)

Heaps? Aggregates? How about “Rivers of experience?”

The skandhas can be thought of as the components that come together to make an individual, a sense of self, an “I” or “me”.

Na kraju, volela bih da SVAKA GRUPA PREDSTAVI NAJMANJE JEDNU OD PET SKANDI kada se sretnemo 27. marta. Žao mi je što vam nisam dala više vremena. Znam da su neki od vas već osmislili pitanja(e) – stariji učenici, dame koje pohađaju kurs darme u Renchenu, naši uvaženi prevodioci …

Molimo vas da to razradite zajedno, uključite nove uče(s)nike u prezentacije, demokratizujte prezentaciju i ZADRŽITE JOJ JEDNOSTAVNOST. Imajte na umu da ćemo imati prevodioca (haleluja!) i da možemo pomoći jedni drugima u razjašnjavanju tih ideja kada se iznesu .

Puno vam hvala! Vidimo se uskoro!

  • Milan i Vladica šalju tekst s kratkim izvodom iz knjige Kalu Rinpochea na engleskom i srpskom jeziku.
  • Za one koji mogu da prate razgovor na engleskom jeziku, ovde je vrlo jasna prezentacija skolastika /praktičara Gaja Armstronga: https://www.dharmaseed.org/talks/audio_player/79/32522.html
  • Dodatni materijal za čitanje

Pet skandi
podučavao Dejv Mermelstin (USA)

Gomile? Agregati? A kako bi bilo “Reke doživljaja (iskustva)?”

Skande se mogu smatrati komponentama koje se udružuju kako bi sačinile pojedinca, osećaj sebe, “ja” ili “mene/i”.

Everything that we think of as “I” is a function of the skandhas. Put another way, we might think of an individual as a process of the skandhas.
The component parts of the skandhas work together so seamlessly that they create the sense of a single self, or an “I.” But the Buddha taught that there is no “self” occupying the skandhas. Understanding the skandhas is helpful to seeing through the illusion of self.

They are:

  1. Form or matter/ something that can be sensed
  2. Feeling / Sensation
  3. Perception/ recognition
  4. Mental formations/ thought/ volition/ free will
  5. Consciousness/ awareness
  6. Form- or matter; something material that can be sensed.
    The Five Sense Organs & The Five Corresponding objects:
  7. Eye Visible Forms
  8. Ear Sounds
  9. Nose Smells [chemical compounds]
  10. Tongue Tastes
  11. Body Tangible things [touch, inner-body]

Additionally, we should include the inner-body feelings of hunger and thirst, and feeling satiated or having our thirst quenched. Furthermore, we should consider the feelings of being ill, and of being deeply relaxed.

  1. Feeling or Sensation is the physical or mental sensation that we experience through contact of the six faculties with the external world. It is the sensation experienced through the contact of eye with visible form, ear with sound, nose with odor, tongue

Sve ono o čemu mislimo kao o “ja” je neka funkcija skandi. Drugim rečima, o nekom pojedincu se može misliti kao o procesu skandi.
Sastavni delovi skandi deluju zajedno tako potpuno neprimetno da stvaraju osećaj jednog bića (sopstva) ili “ja”. Ali Buda je podučavao da ne postoji “sopstvo” koje kontroliše skande. Kad se razumeju skande onda se lakše razume iluzija sopstva.

One (skande)su:

  1. Oblik(forma) ili materija / nešto što se može osetiti
  2. Osećaj / Senzacija
  3. Opažanje(percepcija)/ prepoznavanje
  4. Mentalne tvorevine(formacije)/misao/volja/slobodna volja
  5. Svest/ svesnost
  6. Forma – ili materija; nešto materijalno što se može osetiti.
    Pet čulnih organa i pet (nihovih) odgovarajućih objekata:
  7. Oko Vidljivi oblici
  8. Uho Zvukovi
  9. Nos Mirisi [hemijska jedinjenja]
  10. Jezik Ukusi
  11. Telo Opipljive stvari [dodir, unutrašnji deo tela]

Osim toga, trebamo uključiti osećaje gladi i žeđi unutar tela, osećaj zasićenosti ili gašenje žeđi. Nadalje, trebamo razmotriti osećaje bolesti i biti duboko opušteni.

  1. Osećaj ili senzacija je fizički ili mentalni osećaj koji doživljavamo kroz kontakt šest čula (njihovih sposobnosti) sa spoljnim svetom. To je osećaj koji se doživljava kroz dodir oka sa vidljivom formom, uha sa zvukom, nosa s mirisom, jezika

with taste, body with tangible things, and mind with ideas or thoughts.
Although this is called the skandha of feelings, it does not mean emotional feelings, but something more like sensations. These are said to be the painful, pleasant and neutral sensations in the body and the in the mind.
We are always experiencing sensations, mostly neutral ones, but also painful and pleasant. They can also be thought of as the sensations that occur based on sense impressions. A sense object such as incense would belong under the skandha of form, but the sensation created when we smell it belongs in this category of feelings. And this could be pleasant or unpleasant, depending on whether you like or dislike that incense.
According to the teachings, feelings are important because they are the basis for attachment and aversion.

  1. Perception – is the capacity to conceptualize and recognize things by associating them with other things. For example, we recognize shoes as shoes because we associate them with our previous experience with shoes.
    It’s important to realize that this is not the bare perception of a thing, but the recognition of it. So, not the chemical process taking place on the tongue between the sodium atom and the taste receptor, but the recognition of that contact as “salty.”
    Perception means the apprehension of a specific object, as distinct from something else. On the conceptual level, this means the recognition of identities or names, and on the sensory level it means the discernment of the five objects of sense. Technically, perception is defined as ‘that which grasps or identifies characteristics’. Perception could be non-conceptual, in the case ofthe five physical senses, or conceptual, as in the perception of thoughts and ideas.
  2. Mental Formations/ Objects of Mind – Thoughts and emotions. Volition, or will. Action, agency.
    The category called Formations is a little complicated. But if we limit ourselves to mental formations, then it basically refers to

s ukusom, tela s opipljivim stvarima i uma s idejama ili mislima.

Iako se to naziva skanda osećaja, to ne znači emocionalni osećaj, nego nešto više kao senzacije. Za njih se kaže da su bolni, ugodni i neutralni osećaji u telu i umu.
Sve vreme doživljavamo osećaje, uglavnom neutralne, ali i bolne i ugodne. Oni se takođe mogu smatrati osećajima koji nastaju na osnovu čulnih impresija. Čulni objekat kao što je mirišljavi štapić, pripadao bi skandi forme, ali osećaj stvoren kad mirišemo insens pripada toj kategoriji osećaja. A to opet, može biti ugodno ili neugodno, zavisno od toga da li volite ili ne volite miris tog insensa.
Prema učenjima, osećaji su važni jer su osnova za vezanost i odbojnost.

  1. Percepcija – je sposobnost konceptualizacije (stvaranja pojmova) i prepoznavanja stvari povezivanjem s drugim stvarima. Na primer, cipele prepoznajemo kao cipele jer ih povezujemo s našim prethodnim iskustvom s cipelama.
    Važno je shvatiti da se ne radi o goloj(ogoljenoj) percepciji stvari, već prepoznavanju stvari. Dakle, ne radi se o hemijskom procesu koji se odvija na jeziku između atoma natrijuma i receptora ukusa, već prepoznavanje tog kontakta kao “slanog”.
    Percepcija znači shvatanje nekog specifičnog objekta kao različitog od nečeg drugog. Na konceptualnom (pojmovnom) nivou, to znači prepoznavanje identiteta ili imena, a na senzornom (čulnom) nivou to znači razlučivanje (razlikovanje) pet objekata čula. Tehnički gledano, percepcija se definše kao “ono što shvata ili identifikuje karakteristike”. Percepcija može biti ne-konceptualna (nepojmovna), u slučaju pet fizičkih čula, ili konceptualna (pojmovna), kao u percepciji misli i ideja.
  2. Mentalne tvorevine (formacije) / objekti uma – misli i emocije. Voljnost ili volja. Akcija, delovanje.
    Kategorija pod nazivom tvorevine (formacije) je malo komplikovana. Ali ako se ograničimo na mentalne tvorevine, onda se ona u osnovi odnosi na

thoughts and emotions, or what are technically referred to as the ‘mental states’. Biases and prejudices belong to this skandha, as do interests and attractions. Cultivated, meditative mind states such as calm, loving-kindness, equanimity, and compassion also fit within this skandha.
All volitional actions, good and bad, are included in the skandha of mental formations. But– how are actions “mental” formations? Our mental states cause us to act.
Remember the first lines of the Dhammapada:
We are what we think- all that we are arises with our thoughts… Speak or act with an impure mind and trouble will follow you… Speak or act with a pure mind and happiness will follow you…
The skandha of mental formations is associated with karma, because volitional acts create karma, just as mind states express intentions, which then lead to action. So emotional states cause us to act in certain ways, and those actions cause or affect our karma.

  1. Consciousness/ awareness
    Consciousness here refers to the awareness of impressions from the five senses, and also consciousness of mental objects, like thoughts, ideas and emotions. The consciousnesses of the five senses (seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, and touching) are non-conceptual (“when hearing, there is only hearing”). This consciousness is where there is a receiving, a holding, of sense data. Visual consciousness registers only colors and shapes. It does not recognize particular colors, which is the function of the skandha of perception. Nor does it identify certain colors as pleasant, which is done by the skandha of feeling.
    It is important to understand that consciousness depends on the other skandhas and does not exist independently from them. It is an awareness but not a recognition, as recognition is a function of the third skandha. This awareness is not sensation, which is the second skandha. For most of us, this is a different way to think about consciousness, since we usually think of it as the chugging along of our mental processes.

misli i emocije,ili ono što se tehnički naziva ‘mentalnim stanjima’. Pristrasnost i predrasude pripadaju ovoj skandi, kao što (joj) pripadaju interesovanja i privlačnosti. Kultivisana, meditativna stanja uma kao što su smirenost, blagonaklonost i ljubav, nepristrasnost i saosećanje takođe se uklapaju u ovu skandu.
Sve voljne akcije, dobre i loše, uključene su u skandu mentalnih formacija (tvorevina). Ali – kako se događaju “mentalne” tvorevine (konstrukcije)? Naša mentalna stanja uzrokuju naše delovanje.
Prisetite se prvih stihova Dhammapada:
Mi smo ono što mislimo- sve ono što smo mi nastaje s našim mislima … Ako govorite ili delujte s nečistim umom, pratiće vas nevolj …Ako govorite ili delujte s čistim umom i slediće vas sreća …
Skanda mentalnih formacija (tvorevina) povezana je s karmom, jer voljne aktivnosti stvaraju karmu, baš kao što stanja uma izražavaju namere, koje zatim vode do delovanja. Dakle, emocionalna stanja uzrokuju da delujemo na određene načine, a ti činovi uzrokuju ili utiču na našu karmu.

  1. Svest/ svesnost
    Ovde se svest odnosi na svesnost o utiscima koji nastaju u pet čula, kao i svest o mentalnim objektima, kao što su misli, ideje i emocije. Svesti pet čula (viđenje, sluh, miris, ukus i dodir) nisu konceptualne (“kada se sluša, postoji samo slušanje”). Ta svest je mesto gde se primaju, drže, čulni podaci. Vizuelna svest registruje samo boje i oblike. Ona ne prepoznaje određene boje, što je funkcija skande percepcije. Niti ona prepoznaje određene boje kao ugodne, što čini skanda osećaja.
    Važno je shvatiti da svest zavisi od drugih skandi i ne postoji nezavisno od njih. Ona je svesnost, ali ne i prepoznavanje, jer je prepoznavanje funkcija treće skande. Ta svest nije osećaj, jer je to druga skanda. Za većinu nas, ovo je drugačiji način razmišljanja o svesti, budući da o njoj obično mislimo kao o kloparanju voza naših mentalnih procesa.

It is also important to remember that consciousness is not “special” or “above” the other skandhas. It is not the “self.” It is the action and interaction of all five skandhas that create the illusion of a permanent, separate self.
We can learn to see all of these as streams of experience, always occurring, that all together create our sense of self. So when we get familiar with these, we can, at any time, stop and ask ourselves: What is making this experience of Me right now? What streams of experience are happening right now, that make me feel this sense of “I”, of “me”?
And just as we say that we can stand on line at the grocery store and engage in mindful breathing meditation, or that we can stand in Mountain Pose while we are waiting at the bank, so too can we engage in the investigation of “what makes me feel that I am a separate self right now?” by exploring these elements of being, these skandhas, at any time.

It can become an active investigation, and we can know this teaching experientially, with our whole being.
http://buddhistsangha.com/2015/11/04/the-five-skandhas/
Sources include: An Introduction to the Aggregates by Barbara O’Brien; About.com, Guide to the Five Skandhas; www.rigpawiki.org; and Guy Armstrong’s dharma talk on the subject, 10-02-15 at Spirit Rock Meditation Center.

Takođe, važno je zapamtiti da svest nije “posebna” ili “iznad” drugih skandi. To nije “ja”. To je delovanje i interakcija svih pet skandi koje stvaraju iluziju stalnog, odvojenog “ja” (sopstva).
Možemo naučiti da sve to vidimo kao tokove iskustva, koji se neprekidno događaju, da sve (skande) zajedno stvaraju naš osećaj “sebe”. Dakle, kad se s njima dobro upoznamo, možemo se zaustaviti u bilo kom trenutku i zapitati se: Šta je to što upravo sad sačinjava ovo iskustvo “ja”? Koji su to tokovi iskustva koji se događaju upravo sada, koji utiču da imam taj osećaj “ja”, “mene”? I baš kao što kažemo da možemo stajati u redu u prodavnici i meditirati s pažnjom na dah, ili da možemo stajati u “položaju planine” dok čekamo u banci, možemo li se uključiti i u istraživanje “onoga što čini da se osećam tako da sam neko odvojeno“ja” upravo sada? ” tako što ćemo istraživati ove elemente postojanja, ove skande, u bilo koje vreme.

To može postati aktivno istraživanje, a ovo učenje možemo spoznati iskustveno, svojim celokupnim bićem.
http://buddhistsangha.com/2015/11/04/the-five-skandhas/
Izvori obuhvataju: An Introduction to the Aggregates by Barbara O’Brien; About.com, Guide to the Five Skandhas; www.rigpawiki.org; and Guy Armstrong’s dharma talk on the subject, 10-02-15 at Spirit Rock Meditation Center.

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